Jagged Rocks on the Perimeter

[user151]

Thanks!

This is a demo right now so it's just the framework for the song. The levels in the final mix get brought up to "radio" volume.  In 24 bit digital recording you have to make sure no tracks get hotter than about -6db to leave plenty of headroom for the entire mix as a whole. It took me forever to understand that because I come from the tape-recording era.

In tracking, you should get as close to 0dB as possible without clipping. This is to ensure you're getting as much of the 24-bit resolution as possible. It's admittedly hard to do, since even top musicians don't have precise control of the dynamic range of their instruments. This doesn't affect what the mix engineer has to work with. The mixing environment is a completely different system from the recorder. All he needs is nice, clean tracks. He can start mixing with all of the tracks pulled back. The extra 6dB you're talking about is left by the mixing engineer so the mastering engineer will have some wiggle room. It isn't affected by what you do in tracking either.

[user151]

Do you guys post on homerecording.com? Lots of experts there who can critique your work and give you pointers.

[GG]

In tracking, you should get as close to 0dB as possible without clipping. This is to ensure you're getting as much of the 24-bit resolution as possible. It's admittedly hard to do, since even top musicians don't have precise control of the dynamic range of their instruments. This doesn't affect what the mix engineer has to work with. The mixing environment is a completely different system from the recorder. All he needs is nice, clean tracks. He can start mixing with all of the tracks pulled back. The extra 6dB you're talking about is left by the mixing engineer so the mastering engineer will have some wiggle room. It isn't affected by what you do in tracking either.

That's not correct at all. They should be peaking at around -6db. 

I do the engineering, the mixing and the mastering. Even the final mix needs to be peaking at -6db before you send it off for mastering. That's so the mastering engineer has something to work with when applying EQ, dynamics processing and leveling.

[GG]

Do you guys post on homerecording.com? Lots of experts there who can critique your work and give you pointers.

I'll check that out.

[user151]

That's not correct at all. They should be peaking at around -6db. 

I do the engineering, the mixing and the mastering. Even the final mix needs to be peaking at -6db before you send it off for mastering. That's so the mastering engineer has something to work with when applying EQ, dynamics processing and leveling.

Yeah, the mix engineer leaves 6dB in the final mix for the mastering engineer. That's what I was trying to say. The tracks need to utilize the full resolution of the recorder to give them presence though, so they don't sound flat and lifeless. A track that peaks at a hair under 0dB on the recorder won't be at that level when the mix engineer plugs it into the console because he should be starting with all of the faders pulled back to around -10dB. This assumes your DAW works like a regular recorder and mixer, of course. I know it's all one big piece of software, so the lines between the different components may be obscured.

[GG]

Yeah, the mix engineer leaves 6dB in the final mix for the mastering engineer. That's what I was trying to say. The tracks need to utilize the full resolution of the recorder to give them presence though, so they don't sound flat and lifeless. A track that peaks at a hair under 0dB on the recorder won't be at that level when the mix engineer plugs it into the console because he should be starting with all of the faders pulled back to around -10dB. This assumes your DAW works like a regular recorder and mixer, of course. I know it's all one big piece of software, so the lines between the different components may be obscured.

In digital at 24 bits you have TONS of headroom. Recorded tracks need to be peaking between -6 and -3 max. That's yo allow for transients that are so fast that the meters don't show them. Plus, when you have lots of tracks (our last song had 39 tracks) you need to leave that headroom for the sub and master buses. The same D/A converter sees them all and you can't get near clipping them. If you were to record all tracks close to zero, you'd have to trim them all down with the input gain. All of the effects and processing in the signal path is affected by the gain of the tracks.  

You can read about 24 bit tracking if you're interested. I'm pretty familiar with the recording process. I've been doing it for like 30 years. Not saying I'm a great mixer or anything, but I know how to record solid tracks.

I can do a quick mix and mater of this demo I posted and you will hear that it will be loud and very clear, with life.

[user151]

I'll take you're word for it, sweety. I found the whole DAW thing frustrating -- always solving "computer" problems instead of "music" problems -- and opted to buy all analog gear instead. Although I do have hardware digital multitrack recorders now since my multitrack tape recorder bit the dust. I was doing computer stuff for a living and wanted to do something different in my spare time.

I also enjoy my hobbies more when I don't discuss them on the Internet. The dick measuring contests and what-not suck the fun right out of it.

One bit of advice I've read that you may find useful: When asking people online to critique your work, even if you clearly say it's a demo, they'll often be inclined to evaluate it as though it were the finished product. A lot of mixers won't even allow a rough copy to escape the studio because someone will invariably misinterpret it as an example of their product.

[GG]

Well here's a fast an generic mixing job. Put eq and compression on each track and then leveled the final output. Still a little muddy on the guitars. The low mids need to be dialed out of them to clear them up. The vocals really come out now.

Good Day levels

[user151]

Well here's a fast an generic mixing job. Put eq and compression on each track and then leveled the final output. Still a little muddy on the guitars. The low mids need to be dialed out of them to clear them up. The vocals really come out now.

Good Day levels

Beautiful!